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Guest nanofrogfish_spf

Just checking SOL out...in Q3 they had NEGATIVE 18% GM, and NEGATIVE 38% OM! And they HOPE to have a positive GM in Q4. About the same balance sheet and market cap as CSIQ, but with half the revenue and no real visible revenue to speak of. And Q1 will be very strong profit-wise for CSIQ...will it be for SOL? But somehow SOL is the better value, just because you guys don't like Qu's enthusism? I've got to be honest, I just don't get the CSIQ bashing when SOL doesn't look like anything that special to me.

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Guest larryvand

I didn't make it personal, but you are. You sound like somebody who is married to a stock and is upset that his stock underperforming today. And what is my agenda here? You seem to be all knowing so let me know. Huh?? 100 faces? What does that even mean?? And BTW, CSIQ management back a year ago said they will have the lowest costs and will gain massive market share and be profitable. So how did that work out for them? CSIQ management is just full of hot air and resemble snake oil salesmen. The first CC that I heard them show some humility was the last one. But then again so would I if I was cutting guidance from where I told them it would be only 3 months earlier. And only dishonest people would name a Chinese company "Canadian". LOL

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Nano, the market is very bad for poly and wafer now, which is SOL's main focus, so they should do bad. Btw, let's calm down the discussion tone. I think odyd prfers calm fact focused discussions here.

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Hi all please keep it civil.

We all escaped the nightmare of yahoo abuse for this place, let’s not bring this back. We have all right to our preference and even criticism of each company, but stay off commenting on each other, ok?

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Guest spiritcraft

I agree, let's go out of our way to remain civil and turn the other cheek if offended... After all there is no better way to take the higher ground than to not take the bait. We must keep this informative and respectful.

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Guest nanofrogfish_spf

explo, someone posted that CSIQ said a “lot” of things in the past year that “proved” they were “snake oil salesmen”, and you agreed with this. I’m just trying to get some kind of real answer to support this accusation. All I got is some vague comment that they supposedly made over a year ago…btw I’d like to see a reference to that exact quote, but of course it doesn’t exist. They do say every quarter, like every other firm, that their goal is to continue to gain market share (which they have) and to be profitable (turns out with the way the market unfolded last year, that no-one could have predicted, no-one was profitable last year). And comments about being low cost…well they are. So I’m still waiting for something, anything that supports that accusation.

Is it OK if I just start bashing SOL, saying anything I want without anything to back-up any of my vague statements, as long as I’m polite about it? The only thing different between Yahoo and this would be the polite part. I bet that if that same comment was made about your beloved SOL CEO, you would have challenged it also…period.

And when I try just simply asking for one single fact to back up the accusation, I don’t get an answer I just get tag-teamed and accused of it being personal and that I must be “married” to the stock (or I must be mad because my stock is underperforming today…lol) just because I challenged the unsupported and vague accusation. Maybe trying to throw it all back on me is really an attempt to try and divert from my original question of asking for one single fact to support it (offense is the best defense).

I came to the SPVI boards so I could have reasonable discussions on solar in general, and CSIQ in particular, without the Yahoo BS. I didn’t come here to read posters bashing the CEOs of any company, and basically attacking their integrity and calling them liars, or any other kind of fact-less bashing, especially without a shred of evidence to support it, just so they can pump the one stock they own. If one or 2 missed calls on targets or guidance equates to being a “snake oil salesman”, then by your own definition they all are. I spend a lot of time trying to post good, useful, factual info and non-bashing opinions here, but if I can’t challenge the baseless accusations, well believe me I have much better things to do with my time…

This is as civil a response as I can make…

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Nano, i think everyone get's a gut impression from people they hear talking. Larry justed shared his such impression from CSIQ CC and I concurred with him. I'm quite sensitive to when someone tries to over-sell something and I get that feeling often on CSIQ calls. This is of course subjective and cannot be taken as statements of fact. I don't feel like digging up the causal examples. Frankly, you sound quite upset today. Are you sure that we mentioning this impression is the only thing that upset you today?

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Guest spiritcraft

Why don't we let this go and move on? I would hope that this becomes a long running thread. I do hope that there is success across the board for all of our picks but would like to know who may be noticed first or perceived to be approaching profitability the earliest. Perhaps when we have opinion threads like this where passions always run high (since we all feel strongly about our picks) we could focus on the finer points of our favorites rather than being overly negative on another members picks. We certainly can't be made to refrain from pointing out the miss-steps of a company but we could try to word it better or in such a way as to not inflame passions. It would at least keep a thread more focused on the topic rather than allowing it to spin out of control. This should be more analytical perhaps as in "this is why I like ABC and am not so enthusiastic about XYZ" rather than "your stock sucks". :-) After all, SOL's success does not preclude the success of CSIQ or vice versa. Further, any one of these 11 could be slammed for something they did in the last two years. I am sure it has been as stressful for some in management as it has been for us. They would all prefer to have been raking in profits rather than dealing with a global pricing / profit meltdown. I guess the gist of it is that in the last two years there are no investors or management members who could not be pointed out for being wrong in our case or stating things that didn't come true. Then again, if there were ever a group of investors who deserve patience for their impatience and passion, it is we. Do feel free to bash any blatant short though for everything you are worth though!

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Guest nanofrogfish_spf

explo, first of all, I've never had any issues with you, the friendly back & forth discussions have been good conversation and informative. And to address if there was anything else today that upset me, well yes, I guess because it's the second time today I've responded to someone who decided to use CSIQ as their whipping boy. It just seems like it's getting more and more to be the "bash CSIQ while pumping SOL" boards....just starting to look too much like the Yahoo boards, and I expect it's going to get worse. I really see no purpose for myself to waste time here anymore...I continuously stay on top of my investment and I like posting what I find, because the analysts aren't ever going to tell you the whole story, only what's in their best interests, and that's by far my biggest pet peave. But since whatever anyone posts here will not have any effect on the long term performance and stock price anyway, well it's just not worth it to me to keep arguing with bashers, and it's certainly not in my nature to just ignore it on a board like this. I still can't believe someone posts a bunch of crap that the CEO is a big fat liar, and when I respond everyone attacks me. But no-one can answer me either...just that it's too much trouble to dig up all the casual examples. So you and your SOL buddies can keep pumping your one great stock with each other, and keep patting each other on the back...I wish the best to you and all true solar longs, regardless of which company their invested in...and I really do truly mean that, because as investors we've put up with countless underhanded negative attacks, and also because clean energy is so important to the worlds future... spirit...good post, but I'm just going to take a break from this board for awhile (that should make the SOL guys happy on their new board)...

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Nano, thanks for starting off nicely. I wouldn't want you to leave this board. You've contributed a lot of good info, especially on CSIQ and those project revenue recognition sheets. I would like to remind you that I in this thread said that CSIQ is my second favourite pick for 2013. To be nuanced about it (should be allowed, right?) I listed both strength and weakness points. The strength points where twice as many as the weakness points and one of the weakness points was my impression of the management presentations. Spirit, to your more specific question, I believe JKS is the one that will first show a trajectory towards modest profits. CSIQ can have a blowout quarter any time, depending on project revenue recognition timings (nano has analyzed this), and do best of all in 2013. SOL I think will collect the most profits in total during the coming cycle. All these 3 have balance sheets that don't need to allocate too much of the profits for repair, i.e. there's a viable outlook for share holders to enjoy the profits (not dividends at this phase, but by not having to put in funds (dilute) to help the company grow).

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