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CSIQ 2014Q1 ER

CSIQ

213 replies to this topic

#181 explo

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 04:56 AM


They said in the CC that they had to buy external cells which increased costs. I guess this effect is not included in the 1% of GM, but not sure.

 

I think the increase cell cost was the 1%. They have insurance to cover repair of equipment and maybe that it could not be utilized, but they cost of more expensive cell sourcing (external instead of internal) they had to take and that's the 1% GM impact I believe.

 

Just to give my view on CSIQ. Without a special premium for CSIQ, which I never felt was warranted, I see price as attractively as other CN4 around $15. This is considering fundamentals like revenue generation, profitability and shape of BS, but is not considering other things like that CSIQ should have less risk premium than peer for not being an ADR stock and headquarter in Ontario (while major operation is still in China) or for addressing safer market segment or for applying a less risky business model. The reason for this is that other names can be consider having features that reduce risk like brand and profit track record leader Trina, like current profitability leader Jinko, like current financial gorilla JA, like current polysilicon (the critical and difficult to make raw material for the whole industry) cost revolutionizer DQ. Which of these strengths will prove most important to claim the juicy pieces of the future PV value pie? I rather see a risk in that a stock depends on retaining a lower risk premium than peers to defend its price.

 

The good news here is that I see other CN4 and DQ more than doubling from here, which means that I see CSIQ go higher too.


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#182 odyd

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:44 AM

I don't understand why you are going to sell TSL if they are doing good. The second half of the year should be looking much better.


This is very good question, hellosolar. It works like this, at least in my head.

 

TSL has been doing very poorly and when stock does that I pay attention to CEDR to look if I see a reason for it. If I do not see bad things I get interested. First two months of the quarter I look at those patterns versus past. If data holds my interest frequently turns in holding shares. The twist to it is what else happens outside of CEDR.

I sold CSIQ long time ago, and traded for couple days on points of the rise, because I knew that power of this company is not module selling but plant selling. I really do not care what portion of module shipments that is, but if they plan to see 15% margin, you run for hills.

My forget pill was JKS. This is where CEDR was giving a lot bad vibes, it became clear to me that China content is big . I parted her at $27-$28 region on those vibes. My apologies if I cannot connect your id to a buyer, but I wrote a small book on my JKS worries in the premium forum.

I started buying HSOL to a point that I had so much shares I turned to worry how will I get out of the stock if my optimism turns to market nightmare. So sold it off chunk at the time. It must have been in the same time TSL dropped the volume of the guidance, huge market punishment was next, but they said they will get 18 to 20% GM. Looked back the CEDR particularly the last one from March, lets called it, TSL delivered the most ever I think in one quarter (I am doing again, hints from CEDR), and stock is literally at half price.

 

Finally, to answer your question, I say I could sell it. This is why. TSL needs to give me at least following

1. 19 to 20% GM in Q2

2. Growing plant situation in EU or elsewhere ( I should be looking into project assets

3. Clarity some form of confirmation on having 100 to 150MW of plants globally out of 500MW of plants

4. Confirmation of the robust guidance

5. They are putting a lot of money to improve efficiency/capacity (over $200M), I need to understand what happens as an outcome, instead for example investing in solar plants. CSIQ put $255M CB and share offering, while cash flow from TSL will do capacity upgrades and building greater efficiency, two times per watt of others. We know that you can make a lot more on solar plants why invest so much in the efficiency?

 

So this is a lot to ask.

To me CSIQ is overly attractive at this price now. They guided 19% on 570-590M, they will make $3 this year, I am very conservative on it. They printed $0.07 cents yesterday and will print $0.70 (or more if CB can add) in Q2.

This is the stock everyone should be buying in my view, unless that $22 is not a stopping point and they are pushing it down. I have a comfort watching it bleed but knowing their result is going to be 10 times better than Q1. Is TSL going to deliver 10 times better result in Q2, even if the hit all cylinders? 

 

I saw people buying JKS while selling depressed CSIQ. In my personal experience you should never go to unknowns and stick with clarity. CSIQ was clear, they just had a bad quarter. If I had the stock, I would not sell it, anyways I do not know anything about trading.

I could be Henny Penny on JKS, but CEDR saved me few dollars. At the end of the day I still do not know what they can report. They are good those guys and Eystein is shrewd to know they can afford to sell in China at low prices and still make money, but is this market going to like JKS drop its earnings by half? The market did not beat too much on JASO for dropping it slightly from Q4, but it did not award her either, so this is why I sit this one on the bleachers.

 

Yet, is TSL going to do a $1 in Q2 potentially, like JKS can or $4 to $5 this year? No, they do not. TSL could be a queen of Q1, but it is hardly a queen of the year. She can be, but their solar plant business will have to be massively aggressive. This is why "I may" sell shares.

There is a good chance that TSL could lift market, but JKS could bring it down, so selling it and sitting it out, could be smart, but I am last to ask.

Thanks


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#183 JulyWebb

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 06:47 AM

Just my innocent perspective JKS pre-announced met guidance for Q1 and China was slower in the 1'st Q I would expect JKS would report fewer sales in China so I would expect them to not disappoint. From what I read JKS was increasing sales globally I wonder would that be in Q1 and in Q2.  It might be helpful to know the percent difference of sales in China for JKS by looking at the percent totals in Yr. 2013 and compare that percentage with what they shipped globally in Q1 and also for expectancy of Q2 2014. By Q3 if China's on target to do what they said whatever happened now is short lived. My take from the CC. with JA saying beginning late May China module prices will increase when China ramps up for the second half.


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#184 odyd

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:10 AM

I am going to publish article on SPVI about quick views I have on the undervalued situations I presented in March


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#185 odyd

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:58 AM

This is the article,

I hope you will enjoy it

http://solarpvinvest...tuations-review


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#186 eysteinh

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 09:18 AM

This is the article,

I hope you will enjoy it

http://solarpvinvest...tuations-review

Thanks. Based on this 40% JKS to China and 140% to US in the quarter (the other article you published) I am much more positive for asp JKS than I previously was. I hope my estimate is beaten, and it very well could be if ASP is actually not down 3 cents. If it is stable we would see 1$ eps numbers.  Ofcourse I assume the worst and keep my old estimate, but these data you provided gives me some hope for even better things quicker than what I expected. My theory is that US customs number will show up low while actual ASP will be very much higher. (This is due to deliverance terms in preparation of tariffs.) So an increase in US shipments makes me in a good mood.


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#187 odyd

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:13 PM

The watch out here ,while the US shipment is the number three for the quarter, the actual GADP for it will be critical.  Like I wrote in my article, my thesis for JKS has not changed, but my appetite to endure losses did. JKS, in my view, will earn a lot this year, but  I  am not sure that will be seen in Q1, and the market could punish the company..

I remember a conversation about the JKS advantage, most agreed it was the supply chain, maximizing efficiency out of existing lines based on the new equipment. I think that TSL has the opportunity to reach the next level within next 6 months. I am looking a the highest spending on equipment out of them to date. 


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#188 explo

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:51 PM

This is the article,
I hope you will enjoy it
http://solarpvinvest...tuations-review


Nice article, thanks.
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#189 sunnysky

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:53 PM

Great article odyd. Thanks! A minor suggestion - maybe it'll be a bit clearer for some readers, if the word EPS is added after the number in two places.

(1) Perhaps delivering $0.07 in Q1 was a surprise for many...

(2)  ... and I think anything above $20M will be perfect while my own target is $0.33. 

 

Eysteinh, while I'm not as pessimistic as odyd about the ASP and GM for JKS, I don't see how JKS can earn close to $1. The impact from CBs is not included here since we don't know how it will be treated. I wish CSIQ had included it but there might be other reasons not to. If just the fair value change of the CBs were included, it could have boosted CSIQ EPS to the tunes of over 30 cents. That could have avoided the stock being sharply sold off.

 

If CBs are not into play with EPS, then JKS will earn a lot less than Q4, simply because of lower shipment. Even if module GM stayed at the same level and FiT income doubled, it's not enough to make it up. However, I think they will earn at least 0.61 and hopefully 0.74, but not any were near 1.00. How the stock trades will then depend on the forward guidance, if Q2 outlook is good and they reiterate the whole year guidance I think the stock should be fine given where it trades now.


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#190 odyd

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 02:58 PM

thanks good suggestion


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#191 eysteinh

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:20 PM

Sunny maybe you forget less opex with less shipments? Then more fit+retainage could in theory push 1$ share. I still expect 0.4ish but if asp indeed is stable you would get 1$ eps with my asumptions. (460mw 0.63 asp 0.48 cost 5mil gross fit 3 ret/waf/cell. 35 mil opex 10 mil interest 30.3 mil shares) again i do not expect this as I expect drop in asp and a tax and currency effect but if it happens I would be very happy. With that said since a lot of abroad shipments opex might be slightly higher. You might just hit it nails on with your 0.6 ish eps. I certanly hope you do. For me as long as they do 0.4 they are on track in my oppinion.
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#192 sunnysky

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 03:41 PM

I use percentage of revenue. I do wish they hit $1 but just not possible without help from CBs im my opinion.


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#193 sunnysky

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 04:06 PM

Speaking about the new CBs, since JKS has included the fair value change of the old CBs in the past I do think it's highly likely they will include it. If this is the only part for the new CBs to be included in the income statement, then this should add about +$14M. (The gain form old CB is about $2M, which is already included.) My corresponding GAAP EPS estimates in those two scenarios are then  1.07 and 1.20, respectively.


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#194 photon

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:05 PM

Am i the only person that swapped some for CSIQ today?  RSI is sitting at a paltry 30.  Even by bad earnings standards, that is a buy signal to me.  I will trade out if we get a bounce on monday, the weekend is a long time to watch/observe what was reported today.

Note, we had a large volume down day on march 5 which started the downward trend, today COULD be the bottom or near with a large volume day again, biggest since Mar. 5, ideally you would like to see a large volume UP day, but either way large volume days are known to be pivot points.

JM2c

GLTA

wrong……sorry we see $18……imo. Markets as a whole are in limbo.


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#195 photon

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 08:10 PM

Dydo, i know this may be CEDR thread convo, but what do you consider bad?  I think if they throw down a .40c EPS, that would be a great quarter.  The market will probably see it differently, but smashing the EPS of all rivals by around a factor of 2 to the next closest competitor seems great to me.  Do you doubt they will print a number close to that?

CEDR is worth the expense? um…..regular and recent history has proven otherwise. sorry, we should accept the reality of the markets and trading.


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#196 abcdefgjoho

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:35 PM

thx for the article odyd. on jks remember the average estimate of analysts is 0.40 now. so some .60-.70 cents would be a rather positive headline.

 

let us see how this week kicks-off now that OE has happened.


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#197 explo

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 02:29 AM

At least some positive tone from Solarserver's report of the ER: http://www.solarserv...in-q1-2014.html


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#198 Lepv123

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    Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:01 AM

    Negative article by SA on CSIQ. Is this a true cause for concern?

     

    http://seekingalpha....-a-buy?uprof=51


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    #199 explo

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    Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:05 AM

    Negative article by SA on CSIQ. Is this a true cause for concern?

     

    http://seekingalpha....-a-buy?uprof=51

     

    And a positive one shortly after. Canadian Solar: A Hidden Stock Market Opportunity Unfolding: http://seekingalpha....unity-unfolding


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    #200 Lepv123

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      Posted 19 May 2014 - 05:08 AM

      Explo, is the reason for the negative article legitimate?


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