SolarPVInvestor Forums

Thanks. Who are these Fulai that keeps funneling pennies to cover Jack Lai's liabilities (worst CFO ever)?



LDK are now hooked on monthly dilutions.

Fulai Investments Limited, a company wholly owned by Chinese businessman
Cheng Kin Ming which is incorporated in the British Virgin Islands.

http://www.photovoltaic-production.com/t…tments-limited/

thanks

Some entity definetely supports LDK share price. Probably from China. The stock should have been trading around 10-20 cents. Can you imagine a situation if SOL or TSL made a 25M dilution? It would have been dropped immediately 30%.

Yes, the trading doesn't make sense. If you think it will survive then the 15% diliution should take the stock lower. If you think it is dying then 25m infusion makes no difference and the stock should not trade at these levels at all.

Quoted from "explo"

Yes, the trading doesn't make sense. If you think it will survive then the 15% diliution should take the stock lower. If you think it is dying then 25m infusion makes no difference and the stock should not trade at these levels at all.

Anyone who would like to pay money for LDK's equity is good news for LDK considering it has negative equity now and it increases its chance for survival.

Another interesting news came out today: Hefei local government tried to persuade JASO, JKS and TSl to take over capacity they bought back from LDK but they all refused to take over the burden.

http://www.21cbh.com/HTML/2013-4-25/2MNDE3XzY3MjM2MQ.html

Thanks. Yes, I suspected the JASO entry commitment to Hefei and the LDK exit from Hefei would make for a natural transfer of capacity. What's the angle with JKS (can see that they need to add capacity at some point) and TSL (don't see them with big need to add capacity and I'm not seeing them wanting to have a plant in Hefei)?

No surprise that JKS and TSL refuse. JASO might want a good deal first. It's a chance to get away with less than the RMB 13.5b they committed to invest in Hefei.

Quoted from "explo"

Thanks. Yes, I suspected the JASO entry commitment to Hefei and the LDK exit from Hefei would make for a natural transfer of capacity. What's the angle with JKS (can see that they need to add capacity at some point) and TSL (don't see them with big need to add capacity and I'm not seeing them wanting to have a plant in Hefei)?

No surprise that JKS and TSL refuse. JASO might want a good deal first. It's a chance to get away with less than the RMB 13.5b they committed to invest in Hefei.

A big portion of the capacity LDK left at Hefei is cell capacity. Any domestic cell capacity represents certain risk when the tariff decision from Europe is still unclear. Anyone who wants to take over the capacity also need to take over the debt. So I would assume cash-hungered JKS won't do it. JASO already has too much domestically produced cell and would be reluctant to increase its exposure.

TSL is too prudent to take over the huge debt. Unless Hefei government can pay off the debt first and offer the capacity at a reasonable price.

Thanks. Tough for Hefei.

Thank you Josh, seems to be that nobody wants this, as I mentioned before. It also appears that city does not want to break into solar industry on its own any time soon. Explo I am still seeing you say that JA has some sort of death agreement to build in there. You do not believe this uneconomical and unnecessary move can be aborted? In mho those MOUs are all flush down the toilet long time ago.

Quoted from "odyd12"

Thank you Josh, seems to be that nobody wants this, as I mentioned before. It also appears that city does not want to break into solar industry on its own any time soon. Explo I am still seeing you say that JA has some sort of death agreement to build in there. You do not believe this uneconomical and unnecessary move can be aborted? In mho those MOUs are all flush down the toilet long time ago.

From the 20-F filed 10 days ago:

"In February 2011, we entered into an investment agreement with the Management Committee of Hefei High-Tech Industrial Development Zone, or Hefei Committee, in relation to the establishment and development of the Hefei manufacturing center. Under this agreement, we agreed to develop an integrated solar power product manufacturing center in the Hefei High-Tech Industrial Development Zone, with a long-term target manufacturing capacity of 3.0 GW of solar power products, including silicon wafer, solar cells and solar modules. Our solar module manufacturing facility in Hefei has commenced operation in the second quarter of 2012."

It doesn't sound like Hefei have let this pass. The original timeline is obviously revised and the original cost projection might not apply, but Hefei still expects JA to place their expansion there, so I would think there's an opportunity for JA to get away on the cheap here with Hefei stuck with LDK's plant.

Here are the details given by the company in a filing June 2011:

http://investors.jasolar.com/phoenix.zht…zdWJzaWQ9NTc%3d

What makes you think they would not?

They are already holding the fruit of one of the arrangements. JASO already said no to the proposal, which means the capacity is not good enough, if JA has to build there, or they can say no pretty much to any other outcomes.

I am surprised that you see this so hard wired, despite the industry, consolidation and necessary frugality when it comes to spending.

I'm just quoting and linking. Here's the quote of the agreement:

"NOW, THEREFORE, through friendly negotiations and adhering to principles of equality and willingness, the Parties hereby agree and intend to be bound as follows:
I. DEFINITIONS

1. The annual capacity of 3GW silicon wafers, 3GW solar cells and 3GW solar modules, which is expected to be completed in three phases."



Can you point to where JA says they plan to not honor this agreement? Why do they keep talking about it? I mean wouldn't they've bailed by now with the depressed industry and all?

Explo, where does it say that they will? Is LDK building 25K MT in Mongolia, this is the year they announced they will start to do so. Do you think that Suntech is still buying metallurgical poly from Calisolar and Hoku will deliver $30M worth of poly to Jinko and Hanwha?

I have economic environment conditions, business experience of JA, overcapacity and stagnant pricing to say they will not, you have MOU with the city which is desperate to get rid of asset in the same category that nobody wants. Do you think JA management is so naïve?

Perhaps we should ask SOL to buy it, to match their imbalanced supply chain?

When you type up your response to this question, add it to the reasons why JA will not do it.

I don't understand the debate here. They've already started the Hefei buildout. They mentioned it in the 20-F filed 10 days ago. I haven't said they'll finish it. I say they haven't said they won't and consolidating the LDK capacity is just one way to ease the glut (no Hefei is not gonna destroy that 0.5b asset). If you will SOL or someone else can take it. I don't care, but I know that valid assets won't go away with defunct companies. Best scenario is that it consolidates and no one installs brand new capacity for a while. JASO is just one example you come to think of for Hefei industrial park since they have built capacity there, right next door. They are not short of cell capacity as SOL is though and refused the Hefei offer just like TSL and JKS did.

Quoted from "explo"

It doesn't sound like Hefei have let this pass. The original timeline is obviously revised and the original cost projection might not apply, but Hefei still expects JA to place their expansion there,

I think I did not understand the persistence you apply yourself with to prove above. I get what is says in the 20-F. The statement above does not sounds that you said they were done. I was saying they were done. What is built is built but nothing close to 3GW even remotely.

Quoted from "explo"

I haven't said they'll finish it.

Now this sounds different. I have no problem with evolving points, but this moving argument is clearly not going to allow conclusion, if the position changes every time.
Few days ago I said that capacity is dormant and not attracting anyone. I walked away because everyone knew better. I wrote in the article yesterday the same. Nobody wants it, as I said, and media elsewhere seem to agree.
Nobody will use it unless is given away. I can see some lease agreement at best. Lastly assets include at least 500MW of module capacity and nobody wants this either.
I am going to walk one more time away and perhaps come back when things will be clearer.
Happy weekend

Quoted from "odyd12"

I was saying they were done.

JASO says they're not. I say nothing, but refer to what JASO says.

If JASO's plan is different from what JASO says it is (repeatedly for past 18 months), well then you're right. I'm just saying what the communicated plan is not what's going to happen. I might have indicated that I hold the current communicated plan as the assumption of what the actual plan is until further notice. That might have been naive of me. Frankly the topic of JASO is of no interest to me. The important thing is that those who add capacity don't go and order new from GTAT and AMAT in a time of overcapacity. We don't need a bunch of forced SOE PV shops cranking out more panels in the channels.

It is interesting that this private placement was at the lows of the recent stock prices. Sounds like some back dating and sweet heart deals to me. Still LDK is a dead horse for the most part being kept operating by the local Government.

By the way the PR for the power plants is an MOU, remember when all the Chinese were entering into MOU's for future projects that were Gigawatts in size. All driven to prop up the companies with prospects. Nothing came out of those MOU's but trial proof of concept 1 to 5 MW pv projects